At 05:02 p.m. 14/04/2005, Richard wrote:
>*wrong* - Citylink have FTTP as does Vector, InspireNet, someone in Invercargill, Network Tasman, Wired Country and TelstraClear. The sleeping giants are the power Lines companies. They have hugely deep pockets, own the poles, have an engineering background (well they used to ) and are interested in growing local communities. They just a little conservative and need a help getting going.

That's good but how long before we have reasonable FTTP coverage? Also, the lines companies aren't all sleeping, Vector and Wired Country (CountiesPower) are lines companies after all. There are still many other of course but clearly they aren't all sleeping.

BTW, on the wireless front, I read BCL is planning to get into WiMax and Wired Country are installing a new site (although I'm still far from convinced wireless is suitable for urban and suburban areas)

>They also keep hiring "telco" engineers to design next generation (ie IP/ethernet) networks, when telco engineers often have limited experience with these. Hence the pricing models they use and overly complex networks.
>
>>So how does changing the copper to fibre magically solve the problem?
>
>Well with fiber the delivery model starts at 100mbps, altho some of the gear I see makes a sweet spot at 1Gbps a no brainer. Anything at these bit rates makes "new service" delivery trivial. P2p, video, voice, Internet is all easy, especially if they have more liberal views on bandwidth charging. As well as the new service/product model, just the simple effort of installing the fiber has a pay back in the ecomony of 7 to 1 (Int figure not mine). This is because theres loads of young guys who want a job putting in cable, learning installer skills. They get paid and spend it in the local market. That spend helps businesses that also spend their new income - hence the multiplier.
>If you saw the number of new businesses that started in Wn when Saturn did their major build you'd understand. Saturn spent $450mill the first time (they did it twice - they forgot phones first time round).
>
>Even now in Wn people save $ per month on their phone bills - Thats $84 each per annum across 100,000 homes. Thats $8.4Mill - that gets spent in the local economy. - with a 7:1 multiplier. If your local Council doesn't want that in their area - vote them out. Wn has been having that saving for the past 6 years.
>
>LLU isn't the issue, new, better networks are.

I'd agree that FTTP is what we need in the long run but given the benchmark Telecom is set, do you think chances are even we have FTTP, we're going to end up with perhaps 5 mbps connections (if we're lucky) and 50 gb of data? Woohoo I can video conference with my friend in Dunedin in HDTV. Oooops I just used up my quota for a month in an hour now I'm stuck at 256k again. Let's not forget other then the reducing the price of line rental in ChCh and Wn, TelstraClear have not done much better with their network then Telecom, IMHO anyway. If there are enough competing companies (ones with real vision), this may be avoided and the future might be bright, but the fact remains we are still far behind everyone else and even if we suddenly are way up there again, this is not going to change the fact of our dark days (i.e. now) which could have and should have been avoided IMHO. There seems to be a feeling if things get better for some reason in the future, this means we made the right deci
sion not to involve LLU but I'm far from convinced that we did whatever happens in the future. The only thing we can say (which a number of LLU supporters, me included) is that LLU might be too late by now.

What so many seem to be missing is that a newgen network is all fine and good and it's starting to be the way of the future for everyone else but we're still stuck in the past and are not even using what we have now at anything close to capacity! The door is starting to open slightly for ISPs but this is way too late, we should have been here years ago. Another key question is even with these nextgen networks, is our backbone going to be strong enough to support it all, given that we have no idea if it can even support what we can have now?

Juha wrote:
>>Actually, this is primarily the ISP's fault, they need to learn to talk to each other and not backstab each other in order to get some scrapings from the telco tables. Until this happens there will be no competition in the market, nothing will change and Telecom will still dominate the market.
>
>Yes, they seem to prefer practising ankle-grabbing so as to be allowed to leech a margin from Telecom's resale products rather than cooperating with one another, which is interesting.

Stupid perhaps but not surprising. Cooperating might help them in some ways but then, in the end not much IMHO (except for TelstraClear). It's not going to make Telecom become good. On the other hand, each ISP realises that in the small market that does exist for them if they kick everyone else out, they'll get something. With LLU I think, things might have been different. If Telecom continues to screw every over it'll make a lot of sense for them to cooperate install their own equipment and tell Telecom to shove it where the light doesn't shine so to speak. But in the current environment, cooperating or not doesn't make much difference IMHO.

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