----- Original Message -----
From: "Mark Foster" <blakjak@blakjak.net>
To: "A Red Fish" <aredfish@gmail.com>
Cc: <adsl@lists.unixathome.org>
Sent: Monday, April 03, 2006 4:45 PM
Subject: Re: Xtra to close 25/TCP Outbound...

> > Hi Mark,
>
> Hallo Brian! There is a name i've not seen in many a year...

I do a lot of lurking...

M> >> http://www.stuff.co.nz/stuff/0,2106,3623905a28,00.html
> >> About Time!

B> > It's an unwarranted interference and a nuisance. When I use another
> > POP/SMTP
> > mail server (eg on GMail, Yahoo, or a web space service), I don't want
my
> > ISP blocking my access to it. I don't want to be dependent solely on
> > Xtra's
> > mail server for outgoing mail. If another mail service I subscribe to
> > provides its own smtp server, I want to be able to use it.
> >
> > The same applies to any port, service or content, really. An ISP
shouldn't
> > block it except at my request.

M> This is unrealistic in the day and age we live in.

It seems to have been realisitic enough up until now. On fact, the last
couple of years I've seen a reduction in the amount of spam I receive, not
an increase, in all mail services except Xtra. In Xtra's case, I think it's
just policy - they want to sell me a filtering service so they send me spam
now that they used to delete. Most of it's not addressed to me but to
randomly generated addresses similar to mine.

> Note we're only talking about the blocking of access to port 25 here.
> The amount of junk that propogates onto the internet from client-side
> machines via direct SMTP connection on port 25 is as you're probably
> aware, phenomonal. (I can post some stats from the blakjak.net mx as to
> how much stuff is caught by the sorbs dynamic-ip blocklist i'm using, if
> required.).

How much genuine mail do you get that way (ie from individual machines or
non-isp servers)?

> If you want to pop your mail from anywhere, Xtra are not blocking this.
> If you want to send mail, theyre requiring that you use smtp.xtra.co.nz.
> Given that SMTP is not tied to the place you're getting service from, this
> is not a hindrance.

No? hehe, scroll down to this entry: http://www.blakjak.net/node/478
See why I don't want to be limited to using Xtra's smtp server?

> Oh, and I read on newsgroups a few moments ago that Gmails pop3/smtp
> service don't use conventional ports, so youd remain unaffected anyway for
> that service.

Correct. GMail uses a secure connection on different port numbers, so GMail
will not be affected. But the Yahoo and the web host's servers are on the
conventional ports. It's totally reasonable and legitimate for me to want to
use those services, and unreasonable for Xtra to block my use of them.

> But you should be using your mail providers service for pop3 or imap only.
> Your ISP should be your SMTP service provider.

I beg to disagree with these particular "shoulds". There's no reason why
one's ISP need be one's only provider of SMTP services.

> And as a dynamic-ip
> (presumably) home-user you shouldn't be doing your own MX lookups anyway.
> Tends to get you scored as a spammer or drone straight up.

Dynamic IP, yes. Although it can stay the same for months sometimes. And as
far as I know I'm not looking up MX records personally - unless Outlook
Express, or the router, or the Cold Fusion development server, do it behind
the scenes for some reason. What is an MX record for and when does it need
to be accessed? (if it's too complex to explain in a nutshell, just say so
and I'll look it up)

> If its outbound only, eg, to mitigate the affects of virus infections and
> spam relay by drones, etc, then I support it fully.

That's what they're trying to achieve, of course - blocking zombies sending
spam from their own smtp engines by connecting to the smtp server at each
domain they want to send mail to. Blocking the port casts the net wider than
this though.

> I have put some commentary up @ http://www.blakjak.net - Including the NBR
> article which Kerry mentioned (which i'd already located... snap!) that
> has some useful comment. Still looking to see how the exceptions would be
> handled - theyre offering exceptions at no cost it seems - and still
> wanting to confirm that the affects would be outbound-only.

When the time gets closer I'll ask them for an exemption and see how they
handle it.

Brian

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